Project talk:Hot air flow

Here's a unified joint thread for our researchers to message the group.

Section on LVG as I would like to update it. Main page is glitching. Is this the same error we had before?

Rename Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft?

Right now the page title is Luft Verkehrs G.m.b.H.. This form seems rare in the wild and I propose moving the page and standard company name to Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft. I suggest this, tentatively, over Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft m.b.H. since it seems there is an AG form as well which we might want to include with the same name. Gesellschaft was used as part of the name because "Luft-Verkehrs" means "Air Traffic", so, I infer, it doesn't read; it needs to be "Air Traffic Company". LVG is a standard abbreviation.
Any thoughts? We already have two dozen patents associated with this company and I suggest we change the names en masse to either of the options above. Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft m.b.H. is what I see usually appearing. The search on the main page should be set up to catch a few variants, in any case. LTA (talk) 12:15, 11 August 2023 (PDT)

Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft sounds fine, with a few caveats. "Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft m.b.H." shows up on a spot-checked German patent, with the "G" in "LVG" and in Luft Verkehrs G.m.b.H.(in all its variants) being equivalent to "Gesellschaft". "AG" usually equals "Aktien-Gesellschaft", though occasionally "Arbeiten-Gesellschaft". So very technically, "AG" may involve a different organization type. If you have any observations on any related minutia, feel free to jump in on company types, by the way. I'm still in favor of consolidating results on one page, even Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft. I'm of the school that notation, on patent pages and on the organization page, is what makes the unified bulk display kosher. -JRH

Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft works for me, or LVG. Consider also Luftverkehrsgesellschaft, the phrasing on de.wp. My understanding is that "Gesellschaft" is usually part of the company name, whereas "m.b.H." is a legalistic suffix, and when one sees GmbH it is sometime all a suffix, and the G is not really part of the company's common name. (I will visit company types to help establish this in our common records.)

I am happy to edit other pages to match the rename. In most cases I'd want a patent page to show the Applicant firm that was on the original patent, but if that leads to too many names, and a complicated query/report with more than four similar names, or too many redirects, or any mess, it's okay to tweak the Applicant firm to match the name of the company page. -- Meyer (talk) 09:12, 12 August 2023 (PDT)

It seems much like "Company" in that certain companies use it more or less in the spoken part of their name. E.g., Nabisco. But in the German case it's the first word of the suffix so they can use the rest of the suffix, whereas we have "LLC" so in that regard it's like having "Limited" as part of the spoken or used name. LTA (talk) 12:04, 12 August 2023 (PDT)

I'm also most in favor of keeping what is displayed on the documents we see on the record somewhere, including on the patent pages, and not getting too carried away with presumed generalizations. G.m.b.H. is an abbreviation of “Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung”, and there is some inconsistency in terms of what is part of any common company name. AG, in particular, opens at least the possibility of a significant change in corporate status. One way to avoid mess, in terms of excessive reports on particular pages, is too retain at least some of the pages, with friendly and prominent though non-obtrusive mention, linking between them. We don't always know what insignificance, or significance, is behind the differentials in usage. -- AvionHerbert (talk)

OK then, maybe the page title should be Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft m.b.H. which is what I've seen on most (all?) of the patents I've looked at so far. You're right it makes sense to potentially differentiate the AG company although sometimes it's simply a change in the same company's status. (Also note, whoever named the latter deemed "Gesellschaft" an important enough part of the brand identity that they kept it even though it becomes redundant with the abbreviation.) Consistency and precision in naming should outweigh the possible convenience of someday grouping in the two forms. LTA (talk) 12:04, 12 August 2023 (PDT)

Of course if we are really trying to be honest and copy the application orthography it would be m. b. H. with spaces. I have been following the doctrine of always eliminating spaces from abbreviations but maybe this is wrong. We probably want to make a group decision on this to avoid multiplying our search terms again and again to uses spaces or no spaces. LTA (talk) 12:24, 12 August 2023 (PDT)